Home « Bruins

I'd like to introduce Nicky Macpherson's gonna start us out


She's my better half and She's the it's a woman owned business Ozark forest mushrooms, and I'm sort of the instigator and trouble causer and Johan is the brains behind the operation so that's sort of the the general mix of things so Nicky if you wanted to sort of start off and and kind of explain a little bit what you do in general and Sort of the background of this you guys are all here for Learning how to grow truffles is that right good deal when you figure it out. Let us know Hi everybody I was out forest mushrooms. We've been growing mushrooms for over 20 years shiitakes And oyster mushrooms, and so we applied for a ser grant in collaboration with university of missouri-columbia dr. Johan braun here on the left and We put aside about a 50 meter by 50 meter plot on the farm for This truffle project. I was our forest mushrooms has been selling gourmet mushrooms for over 20 years to the st. Louis Restaurants hotels and catering companies. I also actually distribute and sell many other truffle products I buy in from Italy, but is honeys flowers Truffle peelings truffle juice truffle butters you name it you put truffles and lots of things So they're high-end high expensive gourmet Item which the chefs are very familiar with using so it would be wonderful if we could grow burgundy truffles here in Missouri, okay He snuck this slide in here You want to quickly talk about the the different climate Yeah, we're a tag team today Both in terms of the presentation and the fact that I downloaded the presentation last night and added some of my own Images so I just wanted to point out is this It's working. I just wanted to point out that over the years of driving down through the Ozarks and Having the privilege of traveling to Europe and getting to know the truffle growing regions of Europe and for that matter, China when I well I Drive through the Ozarks, this is kind of what I'm thinking about we have a small town commerce' in the lorraine of france This farmhouse was converted This orchard this orchard is owned by the community And it is a producing truffle orchard and they took one one of the farm houses it became available and made a truffle museum out of it, and so there's a museum downstairs upstairs, there's a small amphitheater There's an industrial scale kitchen and a bistro and there's also yes, and If you walk out the back of the of the Maison des truth you're right in the in the truth, er as we call the truffle orchard so this has been my vision and Perhaps if as this registers as you see some of the places where where Where we're going to be install of true fear on dan and Nicky's property. I'll point out where the Bistro is going to be So far this is the map of truffle things going on in in, Missouri the Heart is where the University of Missouri farm where yo.hannes been doing some of his experimentation Yeah, sorry then let me there. You go said all right Okay, yeah, I think this will work the Persimmon hill farm I don't this Ernie is here There you go. He's in early stages of putting in a truffle orchard we Rose our forest mushrooms were dak farm is down near us off the Merrimack up off the Salem and The farm at sugar creeks another area, and we're going to be getting some of our trees stock from Forrest Keeling nurseries So that's kind of the map of things going on truffle at the moment This is our particular farm anybody familiar with the sinks down in Shannon County We were down in southern Missouri between Salem and eminence the farm name is timber We have lots of trees lots of sort of low-grade hardwood forests and this is a geological feature on the farm that gives it its name and actually the creek used to go around with that Lake is and it cut a hole through the Hillside and made a tunnel through the thing that's called the sinks locally This is what Nicki does she has an outdoor production 15 18,000 logs growing shiitake mushrooms on been doing it for way too long. I think over 20 years That's showing you some of the mushrooms growing How many you guys are familiar with growing of shiitake mushrooms, so a few of you I know Ernie grows some as well Johann has done a lot of research on it. We also grow mushrooms in the snow so we have a winter production We have a greenhouse where we burn our old logs on to heat the greenhouse We grow oysters mushrooms as well on subsequent Some of the different varieties that we grow And that's why With what with what Nicki does of those are forest mushrooms Truffles is the perfect sort of next step in something to add to a product line When we first looked at this we evaluated two sites on the farm There's this area here where here's our mushroom growing area in this area here We did some soil tests and We're not going to get too much in as anyone has any more detail on some of the soil Testing results we could probably talk for a couple hours on that one I'll be over my head, but hopefully Johann could help us out on that one but basically our pH a little low our clay content a little low and We definitely had to Mitigate the soil so that's where we have our our to say our grants are in a process of converting our area into the proper soil conditions for the Here's the actual on place that we picked It's a 50 meter by 50 meter plot on a little sort of Knoll and what we call the walnut no field at our farm and There we are taking some of the soil tests We've been Aptus. It's taken us two years to get the soil to a place where we want it to be and As you'll see in a little bit when we show you our final soil results. We're at a really good place right now This is where it what it looks like it's a really pretty area. It's really fun to work out. They're very quiet We also picked it because we happen to have some electrical lines from Black River electrics So I'm that's going to come in handy for some irrigation purposes, so we didn't have to run electricity to it We tried to use in in doing anything like this and trying to do it economically you got to use what you have and we were able to borrow a Moldboard plow one of the things we needed to do Mitigating the soil Our clay content wasn't high enough which is hard to believe in the Ozarks when all we do is grow rocks and clay anyway so we actually wanted to mix the soil so we use the mole Wow to completely turn over the soil and that worked very well went down to what about 1215 inches and So that helped quite a bit We also had an old old disc that we use to kind of put in the put in the lime after we applied it And here's the here's the field right after the application of the lime so we added We've had three applications, and we can get into the actual amount Was about 15 tons believe all tikal together when talking to MFA on putting it they they couldn't understand why we wanted to dump so much lime on a small place And they basically drove around in a circle in our 50 meter thing and dump the lime down it gets very quickly Assimilated and you can see here after our first application our pH went up a little bit now These the one two three represents depth in the soil, so As you can see as we're going down in our soil the limes not getting mixed in as quite as well down towards the bottom So that's four inches eight inches and 12 inches down and one of the things we wanted to do is get it really well incorporated This is after our first lime application we seeded it with annual ryegrass another thing We're trying to do is build up our organic matter so every time we we disc it every time We lime it we seed it we grow a cover crop such as annual ryegrass that gets Reincorporated back into the ground again to keep organic matter up, so that's another important Took our soil test and we had we have a second application You can also see here temperature sensors in here to find out if what the how the grounds freezing over time so we have a complete record of What the soil temperatures are doing it at different depths in the orchard And You can see after our next application our pH is slowly going up But still a little bit, too Low we are hoping we'd make it on this one and we actually have had to do a third a third application We're shooting for a pH of pretty much eight Seven point eight so that's a that's a pretty high number with them We have noticed we're actually registering on Google Earth to view Google Earth So you'll actually see this plot on you know from from the pictures They've taken you notice how green that is so that's just that just as a result of this hi lime content It's kind of interesting because I think a lot a lot of the old timers like to really heavily line their fields and you can See why it has a really really big effect on on what we need to we also need additional calcium for moisture handling cap capability additional organic matter and the CEC being cation exchange capability on that So now you can see after our third lineup We just took these soil tests what two weeks ago And you can see we're getting this is at four inches 8 inches and twelve inches You can see we're really getting right where we want to be And it's well incorporated deep down into the soil, so we're in a pretty good place Do you want to talk a little bit about some of the other Truffles don't like wet feet so we need a we need an elevated area We need an elevated area to grow truffles because truffle the trees don't like wet feet the truffle doesn't survive well on trees if they if they're in an area that gets flooded at all so our soil tends to be a a silt loam and As a result sand silt doesn't have a very high cation exchange capacity We're a little low on cation exchange capacity the most important element for Truffle cultivation turns out to be calcium and right now we're we're in a pretty good position. We're sitting around 1,500 to 2,000 parts per million of and our target is our threshold target is is 3000 and the fact that we're at seven point eight seven point nine With and still not at three thousand is a is a function of the relatively low cation exchange capacity of the soil so one of the Materials that will raise cation exchange capacity as clay another is organic matter and so that's one of the reasons we're looking to to raise organic matter and so now this lake occurs at the sinks right next to Dan and Nikki's home there and They've had an invasion of of milfoil an aquatic weed And one of the things that I really like about working with Dan and Nikki is that is that they're very resourceful, and they they try to turn their disadvantages to advantages and as it turns out This lake this This body of water because it's it's running through. It's arriving through limestone has a very high calcium content very high lime content in the water and the mill foil is crusted with calcium carbonate and so we get organic matter and we get calcium from the milfoil and so They've they've read this this boat to be able to drag the the milf oil up from the lake and Sorry and So this is a picture of the of the mill foil weed drying on the floor of the greenhouse Okay, and then they're milling it And This is what the chopped milfoil looks like and Then we can use it either as is as an organic matter amendment and it can have multiple uses on their farm Or we can use it to Produce biochar and So this just gives you a pictorial of the process that the milfoil can go through from from Beginning in the lake as an aquatic weed crested with lime to Flailed and ground dried and then this is an extremely simple primitive even biochar kiln, but it works and We can we can essentially cook the mill foil at about 400 degrees Celsius for several hours and The gases that are driven off from the organic matter inside this inner drum Travel down underneath the drum and catch fire and help fuel the process But in the end we're left with a very highly porous material with a very high cation exchange capacity and about 6,000 parts per million of calcium where our total target is about 3000 and so we can raise the porosity of the soil the calcium content of the soil and it's been Demonstrated that this biochar is an excellent habitat for useful bacteria and for For mycorrhizal fungi as well So another resource we consider this a resource I guess that we have on hand as the spent shiitake logs and in the past They've been they've been burning these logs dry letting them dry burning them to heat the greenhouse over the winter But as you can imagine there aren't a whole lot of BTUs in the logs after the shiitake have have chewed them up pretty thoroughly over maybe four or five years and So we're looking at at converting at these shiitake logs and either bio charring them were using them directly as mulch and it turns out that at one stage in the truffles lifecycle it actually consumes Dead fine roots of oak trees and here we've got all this dead oak wood That's that's ready to be mulched and and it may find its way into the into the truffle production process So another feature of truffle cultivation is is the need to irrigate These mushrooms do form underground. They're in Association with the roots of of the trees and we'll talk about the trees in in a few minutes But we've got to have at least a couple of inches of rain per month Through the growing season in order to in order to keep the the truffles developing Our information has changed a little bit of over last year's because this year in Europe in the in the mainland of Europe it was as dry as it was here and so they thought that their truffle production was going to be nil this autumn with the burgundy truffle and It turns out that where people had irrigation the truffle production is is fine Doing well where they didn't have irrigation it It really was impacted heavily, so we're using we're going to be using micro aspirators very short overhead sprinklers between located between each pair of trees along the rows and the reason for that is because we don't know where on the root system were we're in the soil a truffle is going to want to form and So we have to make sure that there's adequate moisture Throughout or along the rows between the trees uniformly We've, we've had a chance to To discuss and and educate some of our students at the university about truffle biology truffle cultivation the University of Missouri established a program called Mizzou advantage And they had they developed undergraduate research teams and the idea was to find Faculty on campus who normally would not be inclined just because of where they're located Institutional barriers, they wouldn't necessarily work together and to bring them together with students who represent very diverse educational programs and And have them Undertake a research project together and so truffle Cultivation was was very nice because we're dealing with the biology of trees and fungi Mycology we're identifying the bacteria by molecular means some of the students were interested in the sociology of agritourism and and a grove Forestry and so it was it was a great experience. I think and Henry Hellmuth is in the back of the room He was one of our one of our students And I think he could tell you a little bit more about it from the student standpoint This is a burgundy truffle this is about 2 inches and diameter probably weighs a little more maybe a couple of ounces and The brown tissue in the burgundy truffle is comprised of spores for spores typically form inside one of these sac-like structures and It's these spores that we use to inoculate trees so the truffles are ground in water And then the spores are applied to the substrate the roots grow into contact with germinating spores and the tree is infected and then planted and this is what the That was what the infected root tip looks like can we go back one second Just a moment So, this is a root tip that's been of an oak tree Quercus robur Quercus bicolor hybrid from our research plantation that's been colonized by the burgundy truffle say Right off the bat that we're still waiting for our first truffle But we're very happy that we know that we've got the burgundy truffle fungus on the roots of our of our trees so Now Burgundy truffle Production in a plantation is not Uniform it's not it's not they aren't Uniformly present and easy to harvest Throughout the plantation we find that some even though all the trees were infected in the greenhouse or in the field some trees produce others, don't Truffles form on one side of a tree not the other side of the tree. It's it's it's maddening but And as a result we're interested in knowing why this is the case What are we doing wrong that's preventing us from having more uniform truffle production and so some colleagues of mine and in Bologna Italy and myself have been Isolating the community of bacteria that live inside these burgundy and other species of truffles I want you to turn I don't want to turn you off to eating truffles, but truffles like ourselves Hosts a huge community of bacteria and it turns out that We were able to determine through molecular fingerprinting that a Large percentage of the bacteria that are living inside truffles belong to the same genus of bacteria that fix nitrogen on the roots of legumes So we've got huge Brady Rizzo be impatient inside truffles And it makes sense because where are these things going to where these fruit body is going to get all the nitrogen they need to produce spores and So what we're doing now is We've got another use for the biochar it provides calcium it provides water holding capacity It provides cation exchange capacity and it also can be colonized by these Benef official bacteria that can be then incorporated into the soil around the around the trees We're partnering with with Wayne Lovelace the president and and owner of Forrest Keeling nursery in Ellsbury in Missouri They've patented a process for producing trees. They call it the rpm process root production method You can Google on forest Kealing nursery and learn more about it But what's amazing about this system is that even though it involves three Three types of containers first the acorns are germinated in a tray Then they're planted into a 4-inch cubic 4 inch 4 by 4 by 4 inch Pot and then Midsummer they're transferred into one into a what is it. I think they call it 3 quart Pot a rather large pot and by the end of their first summer they're taller than I am We're going to take the seedlings at this middle stage, and we're going to actually inoculate them in the in the field What we like about the forest Kealing about the rpm seedlings is that they the process discourages the formation of an enduring tap root and it encourages the production of a very highly branched lateral root system and So these seedlings Normally if you saw a seedling that was a couple months old and in a normal Container it would have a very long tap root and a few short lateral roots The lateral roots form mycorrhizae with the truffle the more Mike the more lateral roots. We have Arguably the more truffles. We will have the more mycorrhizae. We'll have the more truffles And so that's why we're very interested in in rpm seedlings so a Graduate now we're using a One of the main host the burgundy truffle in Europe is Quercus robur it's called English oak or common oak And there are frost tolerant Selections that are available This Quercus robur is the main host that that Produces burgundy truffles on the Swedish island of Gotland in the in the baltic sea the farthest north Distribution of the burgundy truffle, we're interested in that in that source because it tolerates very low temperatures down to and about freezing So forest Kealing has hybridized Quercus robur with with a north american species called swamp white oak Swamp is a bad a bad name. It will grow in swamps, but it doesn't need swamps to to do well The reason we've we've hybridized quickest by color into Rober is because by color is very resistant to a foliage disease cause Powdery mildew and so the hybrid is is a healthier plant and it grows better We're going to be planting 80 of these of this hybrid on Dan and Nikki's property and we're going to be Planting 80 more of another interesting plant selection this is We're going to be planting grafted seedlings the root system will be Quercus robur To take advantage of the fact that it's a it's a well known good host for the truffle The tops are going to be a selection that Wayne Lovelace is developed that produces an edible acorn so this is a hybrid of baroque and Swamp white oak that Wayne is named Kimberly And it produces the shade characteristics that we're looking for in a burgundy truffle habitat, and it also produces that second crop that people seem to be asking us about And I can tell you more about that that hybrid Anyway, we're our planting layout will be ten rows of 16 trees We've got a quarter of the hectare 50 meters by 50 meters The rows will be oriented east-west to provide maximum shade The rows will be five metres apart and the trees will be planted three metres apart along the rows So each tree is going to be on a three by five meter spacing And we talked about irrigation I'm gonna try to hurry along This is our research trophy air at at hark We've done a lot of things wrong this this orchard was established in 2005. We've learned an awful lot in the last seven years But the soil was lime 27.2 with with agricultural lime I was planted with the hybrid that I mentioned which was well colonized in the greenhouse it's a mixture of rpm seedlings and the more typical book style seedlings and all of the trees were The better-looking trees here were pushing 20 feet this early summer And I cut them back to 12 to 15 so that I can harvest the acorns off of them for planting stock And we're particularly interested for the burgundy truffle in open grown canopies that are going to throw a lot of shade Quickly if we ever do decide to work with the Perigord black truffle Then we'll want the columnar growth form because Perigord truffles don't like shade Okay One interesting thing about the burgundy truffle and the Perigord truffle for that matter is that if you if you have an appropriate soil and you have a tree that isn't infected you can infect it even after it's well developed and so we took an air Spade and we exposed the lateral roots around one of the RPM seedlings and There are practices that are being used in Europe for Inoculating these trees with a combination of vermiculite laced with spores of the truffle We're going to add the bacteria to to actually convert an existing tree to a truffle producing tree Okay there are there are tools that are being developed in Europe Pretty much at the moment Basically we have a very We're getting away from Tools of modern agriculture, and we're starting to think about tools that are appropriate to the biology of the truffle fungus So I mentioned the roads are going to be five meters apart There'll be a one meter wide central alleyway for a very narrow tractor small lightweight tractor to negotiate and the tools will be side mounted on the rear of the Of the tractor the reason is that we're going to allow some compaction to take place between the rows, but we're going to we're not going to have any we're not going to be dragging a tool behind a tractor to try to decomp at What the tractor is compacting Because we want as loose as soil as possible because that will not only help Truffles to form but will get bigger truffles is the experience in Europe I Wondered whether dogs could just how bit a dog's nose was and Two winners ago two years ago now I was in Sweden on Gotland and had the chance to see how good dogs are at finding Truffles there was about four to six inches of snow this is a hazel clump and These dogs were running around with their heads under the snow and they were they were finding truffles under the snow so We use dogs to to find truffles Pigs want to eat the truffles Dogs want to treat that you give them and the appreciation that you show them for finding the truffle big difference this is These are a couple of my favorite things to do with truffles They represent value-added products if I told you that that the burgundy truffle retail in this country for about $500 a pound It seems like a lot the Perigord truffle for nine hundred and sixty dollars a pound But you only need a small amount of truffle to have a really fine truffle experience So this is a Brie. That's been sliced and and Made a sandwich of sliced truffles wrapped in plastic and set in the cheese drawer For a couple of days and then sliced on to a this is truffle butter on a piece of bread But the best thing to do with brie is to take a small slice put it on a on a plate and drizzle truffled Honey over it that is My idea of heaven okay Yeah, so once you've planted your trees, and you hopefully got some truffles, and you have a well-trained dog To to dig them up, but what are you going to do with the truffles The shelf life on them isn't you know very long what is maybe a couple of weeks or so so valuated product says I'm the queen of Here with my own mushroom business is there are so many things you can do with the truffle So there's some you know like your hands talked about its truffle, honeys There's truffle sauces you can make and these are all non. You know They're they're um you can keep these for a long time. They don't have to be refrigerated There's a product these are all from Italy There's a truffle salt. You can get sea salt and put little bits of the truffle in the salt truffles if you haven't tasted them are very earthy and tasting then it also You the experience is also. It's like a perfume it's a smell as much as is the taste And you just certainly don't want to overcook them So you really need to read out and train the chef's when you sell Truffles to them as to you know how to work with them There's truffle juice there's cand hole truffles and can truffle peelings as well and Just really like these products because they can then after one can make many different other truffle Sauces butters and so forth with that this truffle flour where if you're making like you know a pastry crust or dusting something with flour you can impart the truffle flavor in your food products And there's truffle peelings and truffle oil So there's many different things, and then so what we do is I was up forest mushrooms I have been making my own truffle butter from the summer or burgundy truffles that we buy from The cans from Italy and then blending that with a high butter fat European style butter And a little sea salt And I'd be selling those quite successfully at farmer's markets once people taste the butter Then they buy the small pot and then they always come back by the larger pot So it's it's a show-me-state so as long as you get them to taste it once. They'll they'll come back and get more So I see this as a great product We have the similar sort of cast typography as they do in in parts of France where they grow these truffles I've actually been very fortunate and been to France and went truffle hunting with a labrador dog which found truffles They are ready to hunt really around this time of year You can pick them earlier in the summer But they'll be much smaller and it seems a shame to harvest them when they're small so if you leave me in the ground longer You can harvest them in the fall Which is probably the best time to pick them Oh Hunt them rather and when we were in France the way they trained their dogs to Tachi hunt the truffles was they actually used the truffle oil on the mother dog and so when the puppies came to Feed off the mother there were the truffle oil was on the mother's teats, and so that's how they got the scent for the truffle So they associated it with food I assume As Johan said the old days in France he used to use pigs because the smell of the truffle Is the Ferrum of the female pig apparently So unfortunately the pig would eat the truffle, so they don't use pigs anymore So any other questions anybody Yeah Yeah, it's definitely a labor of love and time time really we're talking about what seven years Possibly I think no hands the expert on this So currently the the state of the art, is that you spend about two years adjusting the soil getting the right pH the right calcium levels and in the meanwhile you can be installing irrigation well actually that needs to wait till you've you've established the soil and and then it if you've done everything well and Your soil is appropriate. You should think you should find your first truffle after three years Five years is considered acceptable people used to say it would be seven to ten years before your first truffle, but now they're pushing it down to three to five years and I Frankly I think that That with the rpm seedlings with a better lateral root system faster growth The trees will be colonized quicker, and and we may be able to realize that three-year timeframe after planting and then we're talking maybe A half a dozen years to 10 years to full production and with a with the burgundy truffle We're looking at approximately Sixty pounds per acre per year once. They once the trees are in full production and Most of that production would be between September and mid-december The burgundy truffle fruits in the fall the Perigord truffle fruits in the winter and so one of the reasons we're looking at the burgundy truffle even though it's less expensive is because our ground can freeze in the winter And if that happened the truffles are destroyed before they can be harvested if their Perigord truffles Yes That that Hazel Grove that I showed you and Sweden is hundreds of years old and it is and it continues to produce and So we we believe that that this is a very sustainable Very long term crop especially when we're using oak seedlings, which are relatively long-lived It gradually as as organic matter as as leaves start to decay in the forest floor They'll produce organic acids That'll that will mitigate the calcium levels, and and so you'll you will say every decade Presumably you'll have to top dress with lime to keep the pH. Where you want it. I wanted to add another aspect of this and That another reason we're doing it is for the ecotourism Aspect of this is that this is something people are very interested, and it has a nice mystique to it You know mystique usually means is another word for a whole lot of work, and it takes a whole lot of time But but it does have that I think it's a really fun thing and the the Ozark region has a unique character to it this matches it very well and So I think there's a whole nother benefit beside just the crop itself is for the people that are interested in seeing how some of these more interesting crops actually grow over time another We're gonna get tangled up and the wires here But if we if we do have a serious Freeze during the winter if we're growing Perigord truffles the the truffles will freeze in the ground and when the ground thaws They'll be soup. So they're they're not a waste they serve to Infect the the new truffle roots that that form underground But they are inedible but the mycorrhizae the business end of the fungus on the root system remains intact and functioning so the The relationship between the fungus and the tree survives, it's just the product. That's destroyed now It's interesting dan and niki told us that all our winters are really cold down there We it must freeze and we we put soil sensors in at two inches in four inches and in the last two years The soil has not frozen in in the sinks area so I think I'm thinking now that you know We've got space one of the reasons we chose that particular location is because once we get it right we can expand on that on that little plateau slope and We may actually end up or they may actually end up considering Perigord truffles down there If the soil doesn't freeze why not Yeah, that's true The trouble doesn't freeze them Bob No because they they well the fun of the fungus itself and the relationship with the roots isn't bothered by freezing with any of the truffles But it's just that the burgundy truffle naturally fruits before the ground would freeze So you you're harvesting your crop between September and December in the fall and and So it's not affected in that way So we're adding the new element to the to the crop mix As you can see this isn't necessarily for the faint of heart, it's a it's a long-term process It's you know. There's no guarantee of success It's got a lot of it. I think Johan has been at it. Well enough I think we understand there our climate our soils well enough to have a good fighting chance The sare grants have helped them enormous. Ly to get us get us started we're really excited about getting the trees in the ground and we really think it has a tremendous potential and it's something that we really want to share with other people because I think This is a type of product that you never can grow a whole lot of we're not worried about competition You know we've been Idiot and enough to grow shiitake mushrooms for the last 20 years, and that's a lot of work And we haven't had any you know serious competition except for Ernie. Where is he He's always moving into our territory with it But so it's these are longer-term things the shiitake we thought that was long-term You know basically waiting a year before you got it. Not knowing once you get it up and going It's fantastic, and that's why when you go to these older plantations. They're just kicking out stuff all the time, so it's interesting It's not a get-rich-quick scheme when you think of the amount of money You're getting also think about the amount of time and energy and money you're putting in upfront Nikki did the calculation and you Know it wasn't really much different than what she's doing on the shiitake so it you know by the time you really factor that all in She's a realist she has to sell them. She has to deal with it all so you know That's you know. I want to be careful as you think about this because the wildly high prices There's a reason why they're wildly high, but Any other comments I might might mention that We talk about I do agree that where there's not going to be a whole lot of competition for For doing this but on the other hand a colleague of mine in New Zealand got started in Perigord truffle cultivation about 20 years ago And his model the way he sold this to his bosses was that they were going to Sell the truffles they produce in the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere during the off-season if you think about it the Perigord truffle has a season from December 1st to about March mid March at the longest and So they were going to sell their their New Zealand truffles in the northern hemisphere to Japan North America and Europe during our summers, but once they produced their first truffle the demand and the appreciation sprung up immediately And they have not sent a single truffle offshore from New Zealand That's been produced, and they they have about a dozen producers down there and So I think it has I think it's really a worthwhile adventure for people who have they Who have land particularly That's appropriate and and And patients who enjoy working with the land yes, sir No, it's it's The truffle is is the kind of thing that you you simply become hooked on when you experience it and it's like I don't even try to describe it anymore because it's it's everybody and I I Inquire of almost everyone I I share truffle Products with and I asked them so what do you think it tastes like what does it smell like to you There's no agreement And not everybody likes truffles and my family my wife and my older daughter Don't have any interest in them my younger daughter floats through the breezes From wherever she is to wherever I have the truffles she is just completely smitten as I am and I'd say about 90% of people really appreciate truffles, but I Certainly don't worry about a market or about the price going down If we start producing quite a few we'll be selling them to Europe their production is has plummeted So I was invited to I traveled to Gotland in Sweden last Last year about this time and I was actually I went to meetings in France and then on to Gotland to buy the truffles for my research and I was got an email while I was in France already and said you need to bring a tuxedo and I don't own a tuxedo whether you have to have a black sports coat and We'll arrange for you to rent it. You need a bowtie and a tuxedo and We didn't know what was going on but a colleague of mine from France and I traveled to Gotland and they had the first Inaugural Event of the gut LAN truffle Society and so we were in the Cathedral of the of the the city with candle light and and We're inaugurated and then Had a very lovely truffle dinner Afterwards so that's my this is my my truffle medal You